“Abandoned” Israel…?

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I keep hearing this sort of statement.  “The United States has abandoned Israel”.  It’s almost as though every time anyone in the media even MENTIONS the deaths of Palestinian children, or a blown up hospital, it’s treated as though CNN was calling for the eradication of the entire Jewish populace.  I honestly don’t get it. If nothing else, to me these sorts of commentaries only speak to the incredible degree of bias and selective hearing on behalf of the people saying them. (people mostly comprised of well-meaning, “Hagee-ized” Christians in America and other places…)

I should probably attempt to make it clear from the get-go that I am not endeavoring to call people to “support” EITHER side of this conflict in any sort of political way. The only point is that from all that I observe, it is simply a most bizarre and confounding position indeed to hear so many people decrying this idea that the “United States has turned it’s back on Israel”, because I really don’t comprehend how on any level this is actually true.

Is it simply because the American media is actually willing to report the deaths of innocent children in Gaza, and show images of their mangled bodies on television? I admit that this in itself is probably something that should be treated with a fair amount of suspicion, from a discern-the-propaganda standpoint, since we know that we certainly don’t see the same sorts of images of murdered innocents in places like Iraq or Afghanistan too often, when they die at the hands of American troops…  Yet even so, I am still compelled to believe that if the true “agenda” of the Elite-controlled media was to outright demonize Israel and paint the ongoing military operations of the IDF as indefensible or “crimes against humanity”, then we would certainly see it happening in much sharper fashion than this!  We wouldn’t see American reporters constantly interviewing Netanyahu and IDF spokesman, allowing them to even try to explain their reasons for the assaults.  We would see the same kind of treatment as we do for figures like Putin, or Bashar Al-assad, or Kim John Un.  Those are all examples of folks the government-controlled media has painted as the “bad guys” and aggressors, etc.  It’s a far cry from anything we ever hear being said about Israel, even in the “Palestinian-loving Leftist media”…

israeliapachechopperBut the reality is that the true definition of what it would mean for a nation like the U.S. to “support” Israel in either war time or peace time, is not found in the murky propaganda war taking place in the “news” outlets or prophecy-teacher’s pulpits. It is actually easily traced and easily researched through conventional channels. It is not some shady “conspiracy theory” assembled through looking at tenuous business associations or obscure documentation or whatever else we might wish to speculate upon. It’s an in-your-face fact. The United States is THE biggest “supporter” of the Israeli Defense Force, both in terms of funding and actual military hardware, hands down.  This is an indisputable fact

The “Iron Dome” missile defense system we keep hearing so much glowing praise about from reporters and IDF spokesmen? The U.S. has been a prime investor. All the fighter planes which allow the IDF to carry out aerial attacks against terrorist targets? The vast majority are American made, through a long-standing partnership between Israeli and American defense contractors, including a large number of weapon systems and special modifications which are tailor-made for the Israel’s needs…  And what about the myriad of connections and collaborations between the nefarious domestic spying programs of the NSA and Israel? Connections which seem to go beyond any mere “partnership”, but actually suggest that much of the technology being used by the NSA actually came FROM Israel first, and essentially show that Israeli Intelligence has more keys to more back doors than anyone else, and is in fact spying on all kinds of citizens around the globe, (even though they are obviously nowhere near close enough to Israel to start launching rockets into Israeli territory or pose any kind of possible terrorist threat)…

I could fill pages upon pages citing evidence of this very real partnership, a partnership which proves whatever lamentations about how the U.S. might be “abandoning” Israel, either military or financially, as being totally ludicrous.  I would have to say that the amount of evidence is SO overwhelming in fact, that the onus is actually on the reader, to disprove that such a tight relationship is still in existence to this very day between the “military-industrial-intelligence-complex” that might still be claimed to reside largely on American soil or be run by American corporations (a notion which I’d suggest could itself be debated), and it’s Siamese twin over in the Middle Eastern country of Israel.

It just seems rather difficult to have an informed, intelligent discussion over what our stance on Israel should be as Christians, if we can’t even take the time to establish the political and military realities first…

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27 thoughts on ““Abandoned” Israel…?”

  1. Well said! If I could put my uncles knowledge in my brain he’s a ex military 30 year special forces vet and a Christian. He doesn’t talk too much about it 🙂
    I wonder what other active and non active USA military think about this right now? Too bad CNN headlines don’t read We support Hamas that is indeed the palistine gov ! They are a terrorist group by the way and they are using humans as targets prob the ones we show on tv. I get a sick feeling in my stomach that our president is so non american and Hates israel in my opinion. Have you listened to avi lipkin ?
    Thanks for writing this I’m sure many relate !

  2. This illustrates very succinctly the emotional reactions that come up whenever this topic is discussed.

  3. Reply

    Like you said, thanks to the Hagee-ization (or “Scofieldization”!?) of a majority of Christians today , I think they seriously believe they are doing God’s will! 😦

    Really, is this what Jesus would do??

    This scripture comes to mind:

    “…in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God….”
    http://biblehub.com/john/16-2.htm

    I don’t know if that is “out of context” or not.

    Not sure about this one either, (from Joshua) but it makes one want to re-think the whole “Israel being given back the land in 1948″ story.

    (Actually, I question the official story about “God” giving land to anyone, but that’s another issue I won’t go into here.)

    Joshua 21:43-45King James Version (KJV)

    43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and THEY POSSESSED IT AND DWELT THEREIN

    44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

    45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; ALL CAME TO PASS.

    Any thoughts?

    By the way, I just saw you can click on the highlighted parts of your blog post and go to your sources! Nice! 🙂

  4. Well said Jimmy. Strange, I have learned a lot from James Lloyd over the years and posted his latest news letter to the blog. I invited you to read it and I am sure will give you more clarification. James used to be a big contributor/guest on Marzulli’s site years ago, until he kept studying and lo and behold, the LORD does bless those who ‘seek’. So of course he got banned from Marzullis site and many of his readers don’t come to mine, in fact I think I may have been banned just recently b/c of my address, oh well. The LORD will allow those who choose to love not the truth, to keep believing a lie.

    http://sharetestimonies.blogspot.com/2014/07/gog-and-magog-part-vi-war-against.html

    I also wanted to let you know, b/c I don’t have your email address, I will be posting for a brief moment, pictures of the book and receipt that was spoken about on Carlos’s blog. I know that could be helpful.

    I understand we all kindof take each other’s ‘word for it’ regarding who we are, what we’ve experienced ect…I don’t post pics of myself and my family on the blog for reasons!! I have shared pics with email friends but even that has stopped. I realize it can make readers doubtful if the writer is even legit. On the other hand, I see folks going all out and even posting youtubes. Not very private….Anyways, the other post will be up ‘momentarily’ for anyone who wants ‘proof’.

    Did you hear about this? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/mosul-residents-react-isis-bombing-tomb-jonah-mosque-n165041

    Really wild!

    1. I think I read that right? Sent you an email. While I don’t usually dialog with other men, I think it would be good for us all to have some way to contact each other in the future as I believe in time, we will all be going dark.

  5. Oh, I meant to post this too. When thinking about the physical land of Israel (because the Spiritual Israel is of greater importance Galatians 5), I meditate a lot on Obadiah 1:11In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

    12But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

    13Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;

    14Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

    Basically stand out of the way! Perhaps continue to ‘watch and pray’, but whoever is there are in the LORD’s hands either way. All those CUFI folks, will be answering to the LORD on why they supported a place that was under judgement and why in the world would they give money to folks that would desire to build a third temple– a most direct slap of rebellion in the face of KING JESUS!

    1. Hi, Deirdre,
      Yes, I have been reading this prophecy in Obadiah quite often lately. Notice this is a prophecy against Edom. (Esau)
      Obadiah 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
      The Coming Judgment on Edom

      1 The vision of Obadiah.

      Thus says the Lord God concerning Edom
      (We have heard a report from the Lord,
      And a messenger has been sent among the nations, saying,
      “Arise, and let us rise up against her for battle”):

      This prophecy was actually fulfilled in 126BC. The Macabees conquered Edom and they were given the choice of being circumcised, and convert to Judaism, or….the sword. Needless to say, they complied, and Esau was ABSORBED into Jewry. Leader of Edom was called “Agag”. (Gog in the Septuagint) Esau got his “birth-right” back when Herod became King of the Jews; he was an Edomite….Gog Herod!

    2. Deirdre, This is an EXCELLENT read. http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-prophetic-history-of-the-united-states/chapter-5-1917-the-rise-of-modern-edom/
      I would also say, “Esau” (Edom) means “RED”. Centuries ago, Amschel “BAUER” changed their surname to “Rothschild”; meaning “RED SHIELD”. The Rothschild Insignia is a RED, 6-pointed star, or hexagram. It was the emblem that was chosen to be on the flag of Israel….only blue. The blue lines, one below, and one above the star on their flag represent two rivers, the Euphrates and the Nile. That represents the territory of land they intend for the Israel flag to fly over. All land in between the two rivers.

      1. PS, Deirdre, Isn’t it interesting that this territory of land seems to be the area where most of the world’s conflicts are going on right now? HMMM!

      2. Esau Edom was absorbed into Jewry; as written by Flavous Josephus:

        “The simple fact is that Jacob obtained the Birthright and the blessing from Esau in an unlawful way, because he did not think God was capable of doing what He had prophesied without Jacob’s help. Esau’s descendants (Edom, or Idumea) were eventually conquered and absorbed into Jewry in 126 B.C. Josephus tells us in Antiquities of the Jews, XIII, ix, 1,

        “Hyrcanus took also Dora and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would be circumcised, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision and the rest of the Jews’ ways of living; at which time therefore, this befell them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.”

        This is confirmed by The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, edited by Dr. Cecil Roth and Dr. Geoffrey Wigoder (1970 edition), which says under “Edom,” on page 587,

        “The Edomites were conquered by John Hyrcanus who forcibly converted them to Judaism, and from then on they constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod being one of their descendants. During Titus’ siege of Jerusalem, they marched in to reinforce the extreme elements, killing all they suspected of peace tendencies. Thereafter, they ceased to figure in Jewish history. The name in the Talmud is a synonym for an oppressive government, especially Rome; in the Middle Ages, it was applied to Christian Europe.”

        *From this link above: http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-prophetic-history-of-the-united-states/chapter-5-1917-the-rise-of-modern-edom/

  6. 5And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7″Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.”…

    Hmmm…???
    Who’s to say someone didn’t make a deal with the wrong guy?
    By their actions, I have to wonder!

  7. For the record, anyone who thinks my comments are directed only in condemnation of Israel, I want to make clear that they are very much am indictment against our own government here in the U.S. as well. Israel would not be able to do today what it is doing if NOT for our continued financial and military support through the years.

    And just as we here in the U.S. find ourselves in disagreement with the actions of our government, there are people in Israel who are offended and outraged by the actions of their own government also.

    Same for Muslims who are NOT represented by the “extremists” in their groups, etc, etc,…

    Generally, folks just want to be free to live as they please and really aren’t all that interested in lording over others in dictatorial fashion.
    But the ones who do make life hell for everyone else.

  8. Hey Stranger, 🙂

    Maybe sometime in the future you could address issues like these passages from the old testament, because I’m sure these are part of the basis for the Christian support of Israel’s genocidal ambitions.

    “When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” (Deut 7:1-3).

    “Joshua commanded the people, “Shout! For the LORD has given you the city! The city and all that is in it are to be devoted to the LORD. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent. But keep away from the devoted things, so that you will not bring about your own destruction by taking any of them. Otherwise you will make the camp of Israel liable to destruction and bring trouble on it. All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the LORD and must go into his treasury.” When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so every man charged straight in, and they took the city. They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” (Joshua 6: 16-20)

    Scriptures like these are why I have a real hard time believing that the god of the old testament and Jesus really are as “one”.

    The contradictions are too glaring for me to ignore.

    I doubt I’m alone in feeling this way.

    1. Can I weigh in on this one, Jimmy?
      I think what needs to be understood is that after the flood, there was ANOTHER incursion of what was going on in the ‘days of Noah’.
      If you remember, when the 3 spies went and checked out the land of Canaan, before they were to go take the land, they came back and said; (paraphrasing) “We are like GRASSHOPPERS…next to these guys”! They were GIANTS, and so were all of these other “zites”, animals too. It was days of Noah pt. 2. If you remember, GOD was VERY quick to tell them NOT to inner-marry with these people. God NEVER changes, whether Old or New Testament. He wanted them dealt with THEN, just as He had dealt with them in Noah’s day…..DESTROYED! It’s not because He was being mean and cruel, No…He loved HIS CREATION so much, He didn’t want the devil’s creation over-taking, like had almost happened in Noah’s time.
      Hope that helps.

  9. Hi Sandy,

    Yes, I do see where you’re coming from with that understanding.
    All I can say is that I find the whole scenario immensely debatable. but I wouldn’t know where to begin!
    Just seeing how people have a way of “demonizing” their opposition….not to mention all the ways the Bible has been manipulated, along with the teachings we see today.
    It’s hard to know what to believe sometimes.

    If that’s the generally established view, then so be it, but something about it doesn’t feel right to me.

  10. Hi Strange,

    As I told Sandy, that may be the standard interpretation, but it still doesn’t set right with me. There are other versions to me that could make sense as well, and it’s a little hard to know for SURE what they wrote was what we think it means today. But I don’t argue subjects like that the way I would clearly debate the matter of what is happening in the Middle East. (No, I don’t think you are in the wrong on that subject. I hope it didn’t sound like I was implying you were. Far from it! I just wondered if certain scriptures gave Christian ZIONISTS the justification for their heinous actions of killing for land.)

    Just a tiny little bit of controversial views about the Nephilim, just to make my point about the variations…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

    But yeah, these kinds of scriptures leave me unsatisfied that we are speaking about the same God:

    1)Jesus of Nazareth: You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you … ‘If any anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.’”
    (Matthew 5:38-39)

    2)God according to the second book of Moses: “… eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
    (Exodus 21:24)

    Then this, taken from the above passage from Joshua,…”All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the LORD and must go into his treasury.”
    Really? God has a “treasury” where He needs this kind of stuff? (It doesn’t make sense to me. Sorry.)

    But Strange, don’t feel you have to give me answers to these questions. I just want you to think about the struggle Non-Christians have for acquiring a belief in the Bible. When I set out to look into the concerns I was seeing raised by others, I couldn’t help but to see their difficulty!

    The message of Christ, that to me is life-affirming and Life-Saving, (and worth spreading to others, where I would encourage Faith) is this: We can love each other because God first loved us. We can forgive and be forgiven, as He has forgiven us. (Guilt is a real soul-killer!), and three, we don’t have to fear dying, when we believe our spirits go to a better place. Those “truths” set us free indeed. I think that’s what Jesus was trying to tell us.

    Did he really need to be sacrificed for our sins, or was he just killed because he pissed off the leaders of his day?

    Where in nature do we see a need for a “sacrifice”, when the Bible says we can “know God by His creation” ? (Not really asking, but just another glimpse of where my head is at sometimes!)

    I could go on, but I have to get ready for work.

    Please don’t think I’m trying to offend anyone for their faith. I’ve been a Christian for years and years and only in the last couple of years ever questioned anything like I do now. Some people question first and then become a Christian. For me, it was those “truths” I just listed that helped to “create a new spirit within me”. 🙂

    I’m sure our own personal experiences with our faith outweighs any intellectual argument for or against the Bible. And that is where it matters most anyway, in our hearts. I believe emphatically that we all have a place in our hearts that only God can fill.

  11. I guess I could partially understand there being “no other name by which men are saved” for this day and age, when the gospel is supposed to go out to “all the ends of the earth”, but that doesn’t explain what becomes of the ones who lived and died before there was a “Holy Bible” to tell us what to believe.

    Even today there are people who have died without hearing the “Good News”. So were they unable to be “saved”? Or were they somehow received on account of God knowing their hearts? In which case, there WOULD be a way to be saved, apart from claiming Jesus as one’s Savior.

    Do you see my point?

    For it to be fair, I would think it should apply to all people across the board, unquestionably, or it can’t be irrefutable.

    Maybe you have an explanation I haven’t thought of about that. If so, I’d like to hear it, because yes, these ARE sincere questions I’m asking. I’m not out to debate for the sake of debating. And truly, even having these doubts has affected my home life, so I don’t take the matter lightly.

    I’d also be curious to know what other questions any of the readers here may have wrestled with concerning the Bible, and how they chose to resolve them.

    1. Jimmy, This first thing that came to mind when I read your comment was this, and it may or may not apply; “To whom MUCH is given, MUCH is required”.

  12. I know you both mean well, but to me, none of those scriptures answers my questions.
    What about the people to whom this message never reached? And I don’t mean the previous people who were “under the law”, I mean ALL people.

    If there is “no other name by which men are saved”, and no one heard the message of Jesus Christ until a couple thousand years ago, what does that mean for everyone else?

    There must have been “another way”, or,…???…it’s not a valid statement???

    See what I’m saying?

  13. “…does any of that ring true at all for you?…”

    Sadly, no. I wish it did though. (Well, yes, the part about not worshipping things that were created.)

    I guess ever since I got the impression that some of the stories from the Bible are retold versions of other myths, rewritten to give it a Jewish perspective, I have a hard time believing the sincerity of any of it.

    That doesn’t mean I will rule out the wisdom that is to be gained from it, nor do I say there is NO truth in it, but my faith that it is the “inerrant word of God” has sure been dealt a blow.

    That is why I came to the conclusion. (for now anyway), that if I were God, the very best that I would want from my creation was for people to get along and be kind to one another and respect the world I gave them.

    I don’t know,…maybe I got so involved in looking at the world through “conspiracy glasses”, that I started to become suspicious of things I shouldn’t.

    The bottom line for me would be to live by what Jesus told us to do, and to pray to God, the Father (which I still do and always will. No fear of me doubting there is a divine Creator!)

    For that matter, I can’t say the story of Jesus isn’t real either. So much of what I KNOW is simply claiming that there is much I DON’T KNOW, and may never know for a FACT, so what does that leave me?

    …extracting the essence of what the Bible has taught me over the years, and to leave certain aspects of it for the others to debate.

    I’m not going to tell others what to or not to believe. Maybe questioning as much as I did wasn’t a good idea, but I never really thought my faith would be so challenged. I guess I would warn people of faith to be careful, and stay away from “Conspiracies in Religion” sites!!

    Thanks for taking the time to write what you did though. I appreciate your effort. 🙂

    1. Hi again,

      To kinda wrap things up on this subject from my end, (for now?), I should mention it’s not like I just watched the “Zeitgeist” film and then that was it for my faith. In fact, about five years ago when I first saw it I practically laughed at how preposterous I thought it was. So, it took something, well, a LOT of somethings, to chip away at my ability to believe the Bible, and if ANY of the “evidence” I saw was to be true, then it would raise more questions, and more questions, and so on and so on….

      That being said, I have also had personal prayers answered on a level that is nothing short of miraculous and to which I could ONLY attribute it to Jesus hearing my prayers and some supernatural intervention. (And like I said earlier, my life was transformed by the Good News when I was in very much a fallen state, and has been a source of comfort and encouragement ever since…not to mention being that “still small voice” sometimes I didn’t even WANT to hear, but there it was, always!)

      HOWEVER, if someone else prays to THEIR “god” and somehow the thing they are praying for DOES occur, then to THEM, their “god” answered their prayers, too.

      So I wonder if things like that are rather Subjective, rather than Objective, since we all internalize things based on our personal views.

      And THAT, is sorta what got this ball rolling for me in the first place….seeing how all throughout the world, people have written down history from their own perspective, and I see some people claiming there is NO history worth looking at if it in any way contradicts the Bible, and I find that rather confusing.

      For instance, now, I can’t verify all this, and I generally don’t uphold Wikipedia as the final say on anything, but it raises those “What if…?” kinds of questions…Look at the page on “Yahweh”:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

      Maybe we could just disregard all that, maybe it’s just “put out there by the devil” (as some would have me believe), but there’s something about it that makes me stop and think, and wonder, and so that is where I’m at today.

      Hope that helps clear up a little of where I’m coming from. Thanks for being as understanding as you have been and for recognizing that we are all just trying to find our way through this maze of life!

      🙂

  14. Sandy, if you’re still reading this,…the scripture that jumps to my mind is this:

    “With much knowledge comes much grief!”

    or that other saying,…”The more I know, the more I know that I do NOT know!”
    (That’s more like it.)

    or maybe…”the more I THINK I know, the more I don’t know what to THINK!”
    (Kinda chuckling over that last one,….not that it’s a laughing matter, but it lightens the load a little bit.)

    I’m not done thinking through these things, nor do I feel God has abandoned me on account of asking questions. He is still God, and I am still me, just a grown up version of the same kid who, when my mom told me “God made the world”, I asked, “Who made God?” to which, I believe she answered me by telling me to go out and play or something!

    Some things you just have to accept with NOT knowing.
    If not, it wouldn’t be called FAITH, right?

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