Came across this purely by accident today. I’ve known about this sort of thing for years of course, but I think this was the first time I actually tried to listen to it. I think I lasted a couple minutes before I just couldn’t take it anymore. This is not prayer friends, this is straight out of Hindu/Buddhist spiritual tradition, designed to put you in an altered state of consciousness that will open you up to the demonic realm. Period.
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We see as through a glass darkly 
LOL, it’s interesting truth, with all the scary things you rather bravely confront, this is the one that worries you? Anything supposedly “…designed to put you in an altered state of consciousness that will open you up to the demonic realm…” We fear altered consciousness in the Western world and that concerns me because we have dominion over the demonic. To be fearful is to to not be faithful. Yes, there are dark things in the spirit realm. That is also where God lives. There are far more demonic things right here in the physical world, pulling on us in ways we cannot even see because we are so afraid to look. Stare it down, cast it out! Do we not have the power to cast out demons?
I happen to be against guided meditation, because the idea behind meditation is to rid yourself of all voices so you can hear God and God’s voice alone. I don’t want some trippy guru pouring seductive words over me, that is creepy.
It is that fear of the spiritual, that avoidance of the wu in Western thought that I was trying to speak of the other day. The East is not just full of Hindus and Buddhists, that is also where our most ancient Christians reside, those who are currently losing their heads at an alarming rate.
It’s kind of funny, I keep noticing how you and I are the same thing, only reversed. I’m not afraid of the spiritual at all, but this world gives me the creeps. 😉
“I’d say you’re making a big jump to then say that this means we are encouraged to go swan-diving into realms/states where you ARE in fact putting oneself into a closer, more open connection to the demonic.”
I suspect if more of us were willing to go into the spiritual, we would then be able to see it better here in the physical. All these dark things you address and pursue, they all have a spiritual nature to them, too. In the Western world we like to be very rational, reason based. The thing is, we are so reason based, we are now actually able to reason our way away from God.
I know from conversations past that when you look at things like MPD or PTSD you see the opportunity for mind control, for the demonic. I do not view it quite like that, I view both of those disorders as God’s way of protecting us from the dark stuff.
“They ALL have a spiritual nature, a spiritual source, a spiritual inspiration, and spiritual “principalities” who very literally have reign over various regions, countries, governments, groups, agendas, etc”
Okay, but in that case, then they must be battled spiritually. That is a bit difficult if one believes that the spiritual itself is the problem, and that people are being pulled into it against their will.
“I guess, IB, at this point what I’d want to ask is just, what exactly do YOU mean by a phrase like, “willing to go into the spiritual”…?”
Well, there is huge fear of anything perceived as charismatic, pentecostal, spiritual, so to be a Christian in the modern world means to avoid anything labeled weird, eastern, supernatural. So we will not even conceive of doing any good in the spiritual sense because we think the spiritual opens us up to the demonic. We come from a spiritual place however, there were talking snakes and burning bushes and people casting out demons in the bible. Such things are feared and frowned upon these days. If one is too open minded, it is thought the demons will come in. Well guess what? The demons are already in, they are already here.
As to SRA of children, I do not see it as being used to control people so much or to release alters at the right moment, it is simply to glorify evil and toy with power. The terrorizing of children alone is the satisfaction, the ends and the means. I think we can see this because it is actually quite rare to find someone with MPD capable of doing deliberate evil. It is far easier to manipulate those who have not been broken.
You mentioned, “alters” which can be later re-contacted, and further programmed, throughout the child’s life…” Yes, but only for the purpose of silencing the person, confusing them, protecting the secrecy of the group. You cannot program someone to evil. You cannot bring in the demonic without their compliance. It’s the old rule of vampires, they cannot step foot across the thresh hold without your permission.
There is a spiritual aspect to people in an altered state too, where they are on the ceiling, or talking to angels, visiting heaven. It’s not always just a simple case of surpressing memories, people often go somewhere when they are not present.
Hi IB. I’ve visited some very creepy “collective conscious” churches (ie. Cults), known many former occult practitioners who are now Christians, have myself witnessed demonic activity, and have heard of horror stories of people’s bodies doing strange things as a result to “opening up” and “clearing the mind.”
I realize we don’t need to have a knee-jerk reaction to something just because it’s from the East. Some of this cultural. And I also realize that many people rely too much on rationality at the expense of the supernatural or mystical.
It may be a generational thing but everyone my age it seems is actually really “spiritual.” It seems like everyone loves yoga and their favorite inspirational persons are Buddhists or Yogis. They only like Jesus’ “judge not” which they take out of context.
So instead of turning to the God we love they desire to become “enlightened.” I get the journey of searching for truth, but what they often find is a false god and not the God we love and serve.
So seeing this and witnessing/hearing stories of dark spiritual things going on its important to have spiritual discernment. I would call it caution and not fear.
As far as meditation goes it is clear we are to meditate on God’s word and to have a day of rest. But the purpose behind eastern meditation has always been to worship or bring glory to the enlightened god-self or to the Hindu sun god of creation.
One could say this is a grey area depending on what we do with that quiet-mind time (are we meditating on our true God or ourselves), but I personally would not want to risk pissing off the God of the bible who says we should worship no other gods but Him, even if we do so inadvertently.
I’ve been reading the comments above, thought I’d offer this link:
Dualistic Spirituality vs. Obedience. A worthwhile history lesson that I’ve benefitted from, and touches upon your dialogue I believe.
Sorry about that. Here’s the link: http://chalcedon.edu/research/audio/dualistic-spirituality-vs-obedience/. Hope it helps.
It comes up free for me. Just hit play. I’ve never purchased anything from there. Anyway it about neoplatonic duality and how it infiltrated the early church and continues to do so.
God never asks us to make our heads empty…sheesh. Empty mind..devil’s playground.
You are one damaged little puppy…
Recognition of the problem is the first step toward fixing it. Well done.
Now, go outside, and sniff your backside. There’s a good boy.
Sorry old chap, but I hate nothing; a term so often bandied about by Christians one could almost make a meme out of it.
Anger? What anger! Surely you jest?
If you investigate you will find the word fairly often in that trashy ‘book’ you revere and also peppered all over Christian blogs. Probably the most oft repeated piece of tripe is:
Why do atheists hate God?
A most risible piece of cock-eyed logic if ever there was.
Such moronic declarations neither recognise that there are a great many gods across a wide range of religions, which merely demonstrates the arrogance and ignorance of those who espouse this diatribe.
You could of course, right all the wrongs of your fellow indoctrinated half-wits, and show us all how intelligent you are simply by producing evidence for your god, elevating you head and shoulders above the plebs kneeling in the pews.
How about it?
Fancy stepping up to the plate or are you going to side-step the issue and bounce back with another momentous piece of unforgettable apologetic prose?
Go, surprise me ….
As I suspected …. a non answer. Lovely!
Your judicious choice of non prose says even more. Way to go!
I was expecting pearls and swine. Maybe next time? Hilarious.
Come on! Surely you have some atheist flooring one liner?
Not even a single tasty morsel of evidence to tease the non- believer?
Are you not better that the rabble?
Surely your belief is not solely built upon faith for goodness’ sake?
I really more. Sigh …
That is highly incorrect. . and superstitious even turning off the mind allows the entirety of YOU to relax and be free of that non stop chatter in our heads. A reboot, a refresh. Its INVIGORATING and you will be able to LISTEN TO THE UNIVERSE instead of CONSTANTLY Outputting noise and blocking everything.
there really is no difference. to be in a relaxed state of mind and body, or to meditate. either way, you will be more receptive to the natural world around you. you are PART OF THIS UNIVERSE, do you not want to hear what it has to say to you? also, they arent demons, they are 4th dimensional reptilian beings from the Orion system. THEY are responsible for the possessions all thru out history, it is because of them we have dragon symbology and words like “reptilian brain.” you dont need to be relaxed to get inhabited by one of these things. in fact…the easiest people for them to take over is people on METH, because when a person is on Meth, their frequency is temporarily vibrating higher than a normal persons.this makes it easy for the reptilian to “possess” the person.
Honestly Bro I’m just happy that this is an adult conversation and not some snake pit…as it usually. Occurs online..I’m sure you have experienced such things as well. We can agree to disagree and move on and see what else gets us talking in the future. Cheers!!!
Word!!!
Ah … the indoctrination raises its head.
Dear oh dear.
Let’s nip this in the bud shall we?
I will presume you have actually read the bible – all of it? So many Christians haven’t, you know?
Oddly enough.
So, let’s start with prophecy. Isaiah 7:14. etcetera ….
I’m sure you know this one, yes? Let’s see how well you know it.
Explain it to me.
Still pissing in the wind?
And getting pissed off too, I note.
I don’t have to ”prove” anything. I am not the one making any claims based on faith, now am I?
Science, in the form of archaeology has already demonstrated that the Pentateuch is Historical Fiction which rather puts the mockers on your JC being a god man, now doesn’t it?
Sort of shoots the whole Original Sin thing right in the foot. Whoops, there goes the need for a Saviour and what have you, right?
Not to mention the prophecy thing , which, I notice, being the erudite little Sunbeam For Jesus you neatly sidestepped without so much as a by your leave?
Tell, me , do you have no integrity at all or do simply act the Ignorant Dipshit because you believe it makes you look really clever?
It is worth considering that maybe I already know the answers to the questions I ask.
But based on your continual evasive responses you obviously don’t, but think that skating makes you come across as sophisticated. You know …. don’t engage the foolish atheist and all that; shake the dust off your shoes and nip into town to fid a donkey … or two?
Nope. I am not aware that you addressed a single archaeological issue. But feel free to do so again in case I missed something?
As it stands the archaeological world considers the Pentateuch to be Historical Fiction.
Period.
And this throws a spanner in the works of Christianity. You know it, I know it.
Now, it is quite simple to demonstrate the validity of your worldview:
Nothing difficult or requiring a lengthy tome
Simply explain the Prophecy of the Virgin Birth. Off you go.
I shall make a cup of tea. It should take you no more than ten minutes.
Let’s see how well your worldview stands up, shall we?
And banned to boot?
Do you know the meaning of the words brevity and succinct, by the way?
So, you going to investigate the Settlement Period?
I really would be interested on you take.
In fact I would be interested in anything you were prepared to write on archaeology.
How about it?
They are not a personal threat.
However, I firmly believe the world would be a much better place without religion – all religion – and especially the Abrahamic versions, which are divisive, violent and based on unsubstantiated claims.
That Christianity (and Islam)is a proselytizing religion means believers often go out of their way to ”spread the good news” (sic) to varying degrees, but often involving childhood indoctrination and ( in Christianity’s case) continued insistence that such things as Creationism is taught in schools.
I could care less what you as an individual ADULT believe. Just don’t spread it unless you can back it with verifiable evidence. ( then I don’t mind at all)
And now you know.
Stop trying to philosophize everything. Apply a large dollop of common sense, just for a bloody change , for gods’ sake!
The problem is you are now trying to deviate from facing the fact that what you believe is based on non-evidentiary supernatural claims and so you knock a humanist world view that embraces rather than divides. One that says all humans have worth rather than ”Be Christian or go to Hell”; one that insists the world is no more than 10,000 years old and included vegetarian dinosaurs on the say of a Bronze Age culture who wrote in a farking stupid book claimed to be inspired by a god or a world view that says…. what does the evidence tell us?
And there is no evidence for a global flood, no evidence for Noah, Moses Abraham, The Exodus and no contemporary evidence for the character Jesus of Nazareth. none
And this is where the hypocrisy lies.
I can quite easily insert ”I don’t know” into my worldview, confident that science will eventually sort it out.
You, on the other hand, are too shit-scared to do this as it would immediately rubbish your god claims/faith regarding the character Jesus of Nazareth.
And if this is not the case
Then simply produce a single piece verifiable evidence .
It is that simple.
Why are you afraid to do this?
Faith? Are you being asinine now?
It is simply confidence that science will – and usually does — figure things out.
Like soft toilet paper.
Evidence? Where? Direct me to it?
And the character Jesus of Nazareth is a narrative construct.
If you have evidence , one more, please present it.
There is of course context.
You have faith that a human came back to life and the earth was flooded; based on the fallacious Bronze Age text.
I have ”faith” in NASA sending a manned mission to Mars based on what they have achieved so far, and based on technology.
Now, once again, please precsent your evidence for
a) The Flood
b) Moses
C Jesus of Nazareth.
Surely you are not relying solely on faith?
Truth, I recommend you investigate the Settlement Period.
Oh, and Albright and Dever were/are not esteemed Jewish scholars.
Faith? Are you being asinine now?
It is simply confidence that science will – and usually does — figure things out.
Like soft toilet paper.
Evidence? Where? Direct me to it?
And the character Jesus of Nazareth is a narrative construct.
If you have evidence , one more, please present it.
There is of course context.
You have faith that a human came back to life and the earth was flooded; based on the fallacious Bronze Age text.
I have ”faith” in NASA sending a manned mission to Mars based on what they have achieved so far, and based on technology.
Now, once again, please present your evidence for
a) The Flood
b) Moses
C Jesus of Nazareth.
Surely you are not relying solely on faith?
No evidence for Moses? Of course not. Because he is a narrative construct. As is Jesus of Nazareth.
And apologists such as yourself love to site the old trope – absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
However, while there is no evidence of a 40 yr trek over the desert there would most definitely be evidence to suggest that up to 2.5 million people had just arrived on the Canaanites doorstep.
And that is a shit load of people. You can’t hide evidence of such a large number of people and animals. So evidence would be absolutely everywhere
But …oops! There is none.
But there is evidence for what is called the Settlement Pattern.
Did you know this?
Now this evidence clearly shows there was a migration of coastal tribes once the Philistines arrived.who moved inland and eventually integrated into Canaanite culture
And this blows the Exodus right out the water.
But don’t take my word for it – hell, I wouldn’t!
Go and do some proper research and you will find out for yourself.
If you get stuck don’t be shy to give me a shout.
Oh, and if you want to present any evidence for the character, Jesus of Nazareth, please, go ahead.
You really struggle with comprehension don’t you?
The coastal tribes moved inland once the Philistines arrived. Got that?
These tribes integrated with the Canaanites. Got that too? Good!
This is what the evidence shows.
There is NO EVIDENCE of a massed migration of people. I am not referring to evidence left in the desert. (Though there have been digs at Kadesh Barnia – you know where this is , and the relevance, yes?
And nothing of the period specified has ever been turned up.)
Evidence that this multitude arrived in Canaan. Settlement Evidence.
Do you understand the difference?
Imagine if 2 million people suddenly rocked up in your suburb and decided to stay? Would here be evidence of settlement three thousand years later of 2 million people?
You can bet your supernatural believing Christian arse there would!
And because there is no frakking evidence of such a multitude archaeologists know there was no Exodus.
Wrong, because the estimate of the initial Settlement Pattern level off at around max. 50,000, though the figure is considered probably less.
As for the rest of your diatribe – I didn’t make the rules or develop the archaeology. The archaeologists did.
You think it is absurd because you understand nothing of the science.
You base your belief on the bible. Ho hum. You don’t even understand this either!
You think a lack of fossilized sheep turds means that there really must have been 2.5 million Israelites rocking up from the desert.
Why not question the scientists? It’s what they do for a living. It’s what they have been doing for several generations.
It’s what Kenyon did.
It’s what Albright did and failed to do. It’s what Dever did and what Finkelstein still does and so does Herzog.
And notice you have yet to ask for a single link or reference. I wonder why? You think I suck this out of my thumb?
What archaeologists can you name that can demonstrate a single biblical claim in this regard?
What scholar can provide a single scrap of contemporary evidence for the character Jesus of Nazareth?
It ain’t going to happen. Not then, not now, not ever.
Lol… roll your eyes all you wish.
It is not about running away from the truth any longer. It’s about what you’re going to do now it has caught you up.
You remind me of my kids when they were small: covering their eyes with their hands saying, ”You can’t see me , daddy!”
It might interest you to know that around 250,000 evangelicals are leaving the ”faith” every year and although some of this number is being replaced from seminaries, and other religious institutions and what have you,there is currently a negative growth that ”experts” believe will likely reach a critical mass at some point.
And this is just in the US of eh?
Heartwarming!
You go well, and enjoy the delusion.
But do try to keep it to yourself. If you can.
Any evidence for Yeshua ben Josef?
Oh, and say hello to Ken if you see him.
lol….
Funny person.
Winning? Is this what you think this about? lol, Really?
Yes, I’ll bet you do, don’t you?
What a plonker you truly are.
The bible does speak for itself, in this you are correct. Ask a deconvert how they feel?
As for my kids? Well sorry to piddle on your cornflakes, sport.
They had a marvelous childhood. In fact we all had an absolute ball.
And if you ever read any of my posts you would know my kids are two of the most well-adjusted and brilliant people you would likely ever meet. And good looking too, I might say.
But then I’m allowed to day this as they are my kids.
Going to hell of course, because they’re not christian, but they seem okay with this.
Yes, thank you for the chat.
You are a funny person!
Really? Mistaken am I? Then you have evidence for Jesus of Nazareth do you?
Step up to the plate my good man. Don’t be shy!
In other words you have no evidence.
Why didn’t you just say?
No, you have no evidence otherwise you would have produced it.
Your turn ….
I am so happy. You are still a farking idiot … and a fraud.
Got any evidence yet?
I’m watching a nice Clapton gig from New Orleans.
🙂